Understanding Parental Grief: Healing in a Lifelong Journey

[00:35] : Introduction to the complexities of grief and its universal impact.
[01:49]:  A personal account of losing a parent at a young age and its profound effect.
[02:22]: Discussion on the stages of grief and the importance of finding meaning.
[03:13] Emphasizing that grief doesn't have an expiration date and evolves over time.
[06:30] : Highlighting that grief is not a linear process.
[13:12]: Exploring how grief encompasses more than just mourning a parent's loss.
[23:14]: Understanding how grief evolves and allows engagement with life while carrying the loss.
[31:04]: How grief affects relationships and doesn't occur in isolation.
[34:36]: The role of therapy in helping navigate grief, even years after a loss.
[41:51]: Reassurance that resurfacing grief is normal and doesn't mean you're broken.

Lisa Weiss (00:00)

Hello everyone and welcome to Brave Minds, Healing Anxiety and Trauma, the podcast brought to you by Brave Minds Psychological Services in New Jersey. On this podcast, we explore the journey of healing, resilience and mental well-being. Whether you're navigating anxiety, processing trauma or supporting somebody who is, you are in the right place. I'm Lisa Weiss, I'm a licensed mental health therapist here at Brave Minds and each episode we'll dive into real conversation expert insights, and practical tools to help you better understand your mind and support your healing process. In today's episode, we are chatting with Alexandria Bleich. She is our therapist at the practice that specializes in working with grief, and today is about diving into the complexities of grief, particularly focusing on the experience of losing a parent. So before we begin, please remember that this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only.

It's not intended to diagnose, treat, or replace professional mental health care. If you are in crisis or need support, please reach out to a qualified provider. And thank you so much for listening in.

Lisa Weiss (01:03)

Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm super excited to learn more about your niche and about just your grief specialty. And it's good to chat because I feel like you and I never see each other because we work in different locations.

Alex Bleich  (01:16)

Yeah, I'm happy to be here, happy to share a little bit more about grief and my passion for working with grief. And yes, I know we're in two separate offices, so we don't have a chance to catch up as frequently.

Lisa Weiss (01:28)

Yes, absolutely. So we can kind of get started there with just like what drew you to your work in grief and specifically with individuals who have lost parents.

Alex Bleich  (01:38)

Yeah, so I think grief is really one of like, the only true universal human experiences and yet somehow we are just totally underprepared for it. And for me, that was certainly true. ⁓ I lost my dad at a really young age and I know firsthand how that loss just totally reshaped my entire world. And at that time, I remember desperately wishing that I could talk to somebody who truly understood, right? Not just like sympathized, but had actually walked that path. And now I have that privilege of being that person for others that are navigating the same journey and it feels full circle in a really meaningful way.

Lisa Weiss (02:11)

That is so wonderful. like, almost like, and I don't want to speak for you, but like a reparative kind of experience to be able to provide that service for people when maybe that wasn't available for you during that time.

Alex Bleich  (02:22)

Yeah, absolutely. People might be familiar with the stages and phases of grief, but really the last one is really finding meaning. And I think this has been a way for me to just find meaning from all of my losses, but especially working with those who have lost a parent. That just feels so personal to me.

Lisa Weiss (02:39)

Yes, absolutely. I think that's beautiful, though, like the finding meaning in it. And I know later on in this episode, I wanted to touch on the stages model and how that could be oversimplified. But I have a couple of questions before we get there. So yeah, when we talk about grief, people often imagine the first few months after a loss. So from your perspective, what does grief really look like across the lifetime?

Alex Bleich  (03:02)

Right. So I think most people really picture grief as that immediate aftermath, right? Like the funeral, the first holidays without them, those brutal, really painful early months. And that's definitely a part of it. But grief doesn't have an expiration date, right? I tell my clients, how long will that person be missing from your life, the rest of your life? Right? So it's this lifelong process. Early on, it might feel like it's taking up all the space, like we're drowning in it. But as time goes on, it shifts. It's still there, but it looks different. Maybe a song comes on and suddenly you're right back in it, or you hit a milestone and just feel their absence all over again. I think it's less about getting to some finish line where we're done grieving and we can check that off and more about learning to carry it alongside everything else in our life.

Lisa Weiss (03:47)

Absolutely. Yeah. And like, like being able to, it's not something we, we move past. It's like we grow around it in a way. Yes. I always talk to clients too about how I feel like grief, it can lie dormant for a little while. And then like something, like you said, a song comes on or something reminds you and it's right back there again. And I think that can feel very confusing for people, especially if it's, it's been, you know, a few days, few weeks, months that they've been feeling a little bit better and that stuff can resurface.

Alex Bleich  (03:55)

Yeah, absolutely.

Lisa Weiss (04:15)

all of those feelings flood back.

Alex Bleich  (04:17)

Yeah, absolutely. And that's so normal, but I can see how folks would find that jarring. Like, I've been doing so much better. Why now? Why this?

Lisa Weiss (04:25)

Absolutely. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess as far as like losing a parent during childhood or adolescence, how do you feel like that affects like development or even identity?

Alex Bleich  (04:35)

Yeah, I think when we lose a parent at a fundamental age, it just totally disrupts our sense of safety, our sense of stability. We're at this developmental stage where we're supposed to be figuring out who we are. And now all of a sudden, we're also faced with trying to figure out who we are without that person in our lives. And I also think kids learn at a young age that bad things can happen. Bad things can happen to me way too early, which impacts then how they attach to people later in life. You know, some folks maybe get really hypervigilant about losing other people, right? If we've lost one, you know, we've lost our father, maybe we're like really nervous, then it's like, you know, is mom gonna die too? And I think we can struggle, we learn to kind of struggle to trust those relationships that they can be permanent. Or maybe we feel like we have to grow up too fast. Like for example, a young boy who lost his father might feel like he now needs to step up and be like, you know, the man of the house, so to speak. And then many carry this underlying belief that just the world is not safe because if your parents can die, what else could possibly go wrong? So that impact really just ripples through everything, the peer relationships, our self-worth, how we navigate life's uncertainties all become affected.

Lisa Weiss (05:49)

Yeah, like a domino effect. I think that's something that like maybe people don't consider, like just how it doesn't affect you in just like one area, but it can affect like your peer relationships, performance in school, and all those those kinds of things and losing that sense of safety and security. Like it's very hard to be like grounded in the here and now if you're so worried about what's going to happen to mom or is like she can is she going to be okay while I'm at school and those kinds of things.

Alex Bleich  (06:13)

Yeah, absolutely.

Lisa Weiss (06:14)

Yeah, so I know I had mentioned to just like the stages model and how oversimplified it is compared to like an actual lived process. So I'm curious to hear from you and like the work that you do. Like what is that like as far as like following some sort of like, you know, the five stages of grief. What are your thoughts on that?

Alex Bleich  (06:30)

Yeah, I think it's not linear. It's not this neat little thing where it's like we're in one state, we're all of a sudden we're angry and then we're bargaining. And then it's like, it's not this neat thing that we can just follow. And with that, that means there's no finish line for it either. And I think that is uncomfortable for a lot of folks. I think we want to just get over grief. It's just this thing that we can just be done with at some point. And I think there's a few reasons for that. First rate pain is really uncomfortable. So we just want that to stop, right? And that idea that grief could last forever is unbearable. So I think we create these timelines in our head, like, okay, ⁓ you know, I'll feel better six months from now, or at that one year mark, I'll be okay, as a way to kind of try to contain something that I think just feels really uncontrollable or unmanageable. And then I think we as a society, we as like a culture, just everything's supposed to be fixable. And there's a solution for everything.

And when we're continually grieving, when we're still grieving months later, years later, it's uncomfortable. So I think we want to be over it. Other people want us to be over it. So they can stop worrying about us or stop being even reminded of their own mortality. But grief really isn't a problem that needs solving. It's love. It's a natural consequence of caring deeply about someone. And that doesn't just disappear on a timeline or on a schedule as much as we would want it to.

Lisa Weiss (07:53)

Absolutely. And you said something there that was like, oof, of like, people like want us to just be over it or like, you know, it's been X amount of time, like, why are you still feeling this way? Or like, do I have to keep taking care of you? yeah, I just I think that's something that is not often talked about of like, am I allowed to continue to feel these things because, know, of the opinions of other people that can feel extremely heavy, like feeling like you need to be speeding up some sort of process for the sake of other people's comfort.

Alex Bleich  (08:20)

Yeah, absolutely. I think as much as that would be ideal that we can just be over it, both for our own personal reasons, for other people, think that, yeah, we can kind of lean into that people pleasing. It's like, OK, I'll just be strong. And I'll put on a brave face. But I think it's very realistic, unfortunately.

Lisa Weiss (08:39)

No, that is absolutely not how that works. So how do you sit with clients in that, like that kind of feeling where they feel like they do need to be on a timeline from things they've read or things that they've like seen on social media?

Alex Bleich  (08:51)

Yeah, I always tell my clients, like I said, that unfortunately, it's going to be a lifelong process. It's going to hit us and affect us differently. The intensity, the frequency of the pain is going to be different maybe a few years out than when we're in that acute grief, when we're in that immediate after effect or feeling those immediate after effects. So I kind of prepare them. It's going to be painful for a while, and it's OK. And again, that it's just I'm not here to fix it. I'm just here to sit with you. I'm not trying to solve it. I'm not trying to tell you to not feel that way or like all of your feelings of course are valid, right? It's not just the sadness. Sometimes it's like the guilt or the anger that they're not there anymore. So it's just kind of preparing ourselves, preparing, you know, our clients for the magnitude of emotions that we're going to be feeling and like letting them know that it's okay to fall apart if we need to.

Lisa Weiss (09:45)

Absolutely, and even being able to like provide that education to clients on like this is what you could experience and also like everybody experiences grief differently. So like not to compare how you're feeling about a particular loss versus like how somebody else's is feeling for a similar loss or whatever that might be. Yeah.

Alex Bleich  (10:03)

Absolutely, even though I have personally experienced losing my dad, how I kind of navigated that or what that was like for me might be different than the clients that sit across from me in my office. But just normalizing the experience of grief because it really is such a normal process. think it's pathologized a lot, but there's nothing wrong with grieving and for X amount of time, like you said. It's different really for everyone. There is no right way to grieve. I tell clients like there's only the right way for you. There's a way that like feels or feels the most right for you.

Lisa Weiss (10:37)

Yeah, and being able to lean into that even if it's not seen as like the norm for whatever like that might be. So I think it's so important to have that space and that support that you provide to your clients. It's, don't know, I really think it is such like a sacred space. And you had mentioned too, you mentioned the words acute grief. So can you tell us the difference between like acute grief and integrated grief?

Alex Bleich  (10:50)

Absolutely. Yeah, so acute grief is like the first couple, first even like two years really after a loss, right? I think we think of it as that like immediate, like the immediate effects that we feel of grief, whether it's like kind of getting through the funeral, like I said, or yeah, just like the first couple of months and, know, yes, it's like, yes, I am. It's that. then, but integrated grief is kind of like, it evolves with us, grief grows with us. So when we integrate our grief into our story, it becomes part of our story, but it doesn't, it's not all encompassing anymore. Does that make sense?

Lisa Weiss (11:31)

It does. And like how you continue to move forward with life and like carrying that with you, it sounds like. Okay, so and I know too we were chatting about losing a parent for young children. So what are some ways that grief often reappears as a person grows? So this could be either a big life moments or even in those subtle moments. what do you typically see?

Alex Bleich  (11:51)

Yeah, like I said, grief really has a habit of evolving with us and has a way of really resurfacing at each new chapter. And how we grieved as a 10-year-old will look different than how we're grieving at 25. It's not that we necessarily forgot or got over it. It's that with each new chapter of life, there's maybe a different or new awareness for what they're missing. So those big milestones might be really obvious grief triggers. We're getting married and you know.

I can't do a father-daughter dance, or maybe I'm becoming a parent and I wish that my mom was there to become a grandma. So those big milestones are really obvious, but it's also in those more subtle moments, like that first time you try to make their recipe, but can't remember an ingredient or how to make it, or maybe something funny happens and you just want to call them and tell them about it. So I think it's both. It comes up in unexpected ways as we get older.

Lisa Weiss (12:47)

Absolutely makes me think of like even when I lost my grandma like wanting to be able to call her and you have that moment of like Just let me give her a call and then to know wow so it does hit you It's it's interesting how the brain works and that kind of work

Alex Bleich  (12:59)

Absolutely.

Lisa Weiss (13:00)

Okay, so for someone who loses a parent before really knowing them as an adult, what kinds of emotions or longings might surface later on in life?

Alex Bleich  (13:11)

You know, we don't just grieve and mourn the loss of our parents. Like, I think we also mourn the loss of the relationship that could have been, right? So as we start to get older, maybe you start to wonder like, hey, what were they like at my age? What would we talk about now that I'm an adult? Like I said, maybe you're becoming a parent yourself and you find yourself yearning for your mom, wishing that she could be there.

Maybe your dad died at 45 and now you're 46 and there's this like surreal feeling of outliving your parent. Like how is that possible? Maybe you find yourself grieving different aspects of them at different ages. I also find that there's this like longing maybe to ask questions that we didn't think or know to ask when they were alive, right? And then there's these like other complicated feelings that might be mixed in like a guilt maybe for not remembering their voice as clearly any more anger that they're just missing out on everything. But all of these feelings are completely normal, completely valid.

Lisa Weiss (14:07)

And I think that's a great example of how those like, you know, the stages of grief come back and like things can resurface again. And yeah, I think it's important for people to know that it's not just like this linear process.

Alex Bleich  (14:20)

Yeah, it definitely as much as it would be nice for it to just like follow a nice pattern because then it's predictable. We can kind of have some of that comfort there. No, it's definitely more like, okay, we go here from, you know, anger to bargaining to, you know, sadness to anger again. Like it goes all over the place throughout our lives.

Lisa Weiss (14:41)

Absolutely. And I remember something that Lauren had told me. She talked about how grief comes and goes in waves. And so you might feel better one day, and that might come back again. So it's either waves or it feels like a ping pong. It can be tricky to navigate.

Alex Bleich  (14:55)

It's deep. Yeah, it can be. I think that speaks like the unpredictable nature of grief. And I think, again, that makes us so uncomfortable. We'd like for it to be this controllable thing. We'd like to put it in, like, compartmentalize, put it in neat little boxes, and file it away. But yeah, it ping-pongs, or it comes in those waves. I think that's such a good way of looking at it, that like, the wave crashes and that's painful and then it'll eventually roll away, Like ebbs and flows like most things in life.

Lisa Weiss (15:26)

Absolutely. It makes me think of just like, you know, how people begin to feel better and life goes on and they're able to, you know, dive back into things that they were once doing. And then, you know, a few weeks, months later, it's like, why am I feeling this way again? And how complicated that feels. like you said, we like things to feel controllable, but that's just not how this works.

What do you say to clients in those kinds of situations where it's like they want things to be linear or like they are curious about when they're gonna start feeling better?

Alex Bleich  (15:59)

Yeah, I kind of tell them that unfortunately we have to just ride this wave out. I know it would be so much easier for us, like we can rationalize. Okay, again, there's this checklist, there's this timeline, like, okay, we give us this almost false sense of comfort that like, yeah, six months from now, I'm gonna be just fine. Or once I get through that first year, I'll be okay. So it's just kind of giving ourselves grace and compassion to feel like and self-compassion to feel whatever it is that we're gonna feel as it comes up, like as those waves are starting to crash on us, okay, if I need to just take a day and just be by myself and just sit with it, we feel uncomfortable. We don't wanna be in pain. We don't wanna be suffering, but kind of like getting comfortable being uncomfortable is kind of the only thing we can do as we're, again, navigating breathing.

Lisa Weiss (16:49)

Yeah, and like you said, though, I think this is another piece of like taking care of yourself, giving yourself grace. And then if you feel like you really need to take time to allow yourself that space to do that, even if it's just you know, a year or two down the line, like you still deserve that. It's not just like, we're functioning on this timeline and you don't get that compassion anymore. It's like, no, you should always be giving yourself that self-compassion and the grace to to move at a pace that feels authentic to you. And you're you're not like forcing

Alex Bleich  (17:16)

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, you had said something earlier, too, about like comparing grief, right? Comparing how other people grieve versus, you know, our grieving experience. And yeah, I think that can be so detrimental. I tell clients not to do that, of course, because, yeah, how I grieved how your friend grieved how your mom grieved might not be, you know, might not be your experience. And that is okay, right? We don't want to pathologize that and just kind of let ourselves feel and experience whatever we need to.

Lisa Weiss (17:46)

I think I know mentioning social media again, but I just like really feel like that is a place where people go, of course, for community and like to find people who have had similar lived experiences and finding comfort in that. But I think that also can really disrupt some things as far as like, ⁓ well, he or she is like being able to do this thing and they seem to be feeling better and they're now traveling and doing all these things. And I'm still stuck in bed. I think that's where it gets really complicated with, okay, how do I find the balance between, this is a really great space for community versus am I consuming too much and like putting myself in that comparison space.

Alex Bleich  (18:22)

Yeah, that's so hard to do to like consume social media or media in general like mindfully and intentionally. I think we can all get kind of trapped in the like being sucked in to social media and being stuck in those mind traps. So it's really important to just remind ourselves not to compare ourselves to other people and social media isn't, I find myself having a lot of conversations with clients reminding them that social media is curated, right? It's not.

Sure, like you can see the highlight reels rather of somebody's life. You're not seeing the nitty gritty where, yeah, maybe they're having days where the Greek has really hit them and maybe they're in bed and it's really debilitating and they're having a really hard time. Most people aren't posting that on social media. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing, I don't know, but most people are only sharing, again, that really curated highlight reel that they want other people to see because. social media is, right? So it's really hard not to get stuck in that comparison, but I think it's important to remind ourselves, again, we're only seeing what people are choosing to share with the world.

Lisa Weiss (19:25)

So true and so important for people to know, especially young people who are like navigating social media for maybe not like the first time, know, social media has been around long enough, but you know, just having these experiences and knowing when I love how you said using it mindfully, like knowing when it's time to turn it off or to take a break from the app or whatever that might

Alex Bleich  (19:45)

Yeah.

Lisa Weiss (19:46)

Okay, so I guess as far as like the evolving nature of grief, now that we're kind of on that topic, what does it mean when we say that grief doesn't end, but it changes shape?

Alex Bleich  (19:56)

Yeah, I love the phrase grief grows with us. We don't outgrow grief, right? In the beginning, grief really feels all consuming, like it's taking up all of the oxygen in the room. Every song, every place, every moment is saturated with their absence, right? But over time, it doesn't disappear and integrate, kind of like we were talking about before. So the waves come less frequently, though they can still hit just as hard. But what really changes is our capacity and ability to hold it.

Right? Early on, hearing their favorite song might be unbearable. Like it starts to come on, we have to turn the radio off. Years later, maybe that same song though might bring a bittersweet smile. We miss them deeply, but we can also hold like the warmth of their memory alongside that like heartache that we're feeling. You know, it's less about that pain disappearing and more about our life kind of expanding around it. We're not moving on from them. We're learning to move forward with them kind of woven into, you know, who you've become.

Lisa Weiss (20:53)

I love that. And I think it reminds me too of being able to have traditions that might involve a loved one and like whether that's around the holidays, like making their favorite recipe. That was an example that you had given or just like visiting their favorite place and like being able to like integrate them into like life right now.

Alex Bleich  (21:14)

Yeah, absolutely. I think a lot of folks have different symbols or rituals to maintain that relationship with their loved one.

Lisa Weiss (21:24)

Absolutely. And I think that's important too. I think we should talk about that. So I guess as far as rituals, what are some common things that you would, do you typically recommend things to clients? Or do you figure out what that relationship was with their loved one and then help them create a ritual? What is that process usually like?

Alex Bleich  (21:45)

Yeah, so again, I think there is no right or wrong way to grieve, right? There is no right or wrong way to do any of this. It's just what feels the most right to them. And that might change from year to year, month to month, so to speak. So I think it's such an individual process, and it's so subjective. But I've worked with clients who have saved seats for their loved one at important events or have lit candles on their anniversaries or have gotten tattoos. I'm one of them. I've gotten tattoos to honor my loved ones. I think it's all about keeping the memory alive and in conversation, right? Like telling stories about them to your kids or your partner, people who have never gotten to meet them, saying their name, laughing at jokes, at their jokes or retelling their jokes, honoring their values by how you live. The relationship doesn't really end. It just evolves into one where memory and love are what's carrying them forward. So it's so unique to the person. Some people maybe find comfort in science, right? Butterflies or like I said, their song coming on, dreams, and whether or not those are like real doesn't matter if they bring comfort. So it really is such a thing.

Lisa Weiss (22:52)

Yeah, it is not a one size fits all of like, this is what you should be doing or like, here are some ideas. It's like what feels right to you. I love that. And I think that is so such an important part of the process. Okay, so how can you typically tell the difference between grief that's evolving and grief that's become stuck or like un-revolved?

Alex Bleich  (23:11)

resolved?

Yeah, I think that's a great question. When I think of ⁓ evolving grief, it means that we're able to engage with life while still carrying that loss, right? It means maybe we have bad days, but we also have good ones where, you know, those days where maybe we can't get out of bed or it just feels really heavy, those still come. But we're also able to get out, go to work, do those things, right? We can talk about our person, feel that sadness and then reengage with the present. We're functioning, going to school or work, maintaining our relationships, taking care of ourselves. It's not that we're not feeling the grief. It's that we're allowing ourselves to feel it, sit with it, process it, let it kind of move through us, and then kind of go about our daily routines. But on the other hand, I think grief can really feel stuck when it's not allowing us to continue living, right? It's this feeling of that unrelenting pain that we might have been feeling in those, more those earlier months or those earlier days continues that that same pain persists. So it's it becomes like a complete avoidance, I think of anything either related to, know, our parent or the one that we've lost, you know, avoiding talking about it, feeling guilty, like maybe we should have died too, or that life no longer has any kind of meaning. I think there's a lot of longing and ruminating. without really being able to move through those thoughts or being able to move through those feelings is what I would consider to be like stuck grief.

Lisa Weiss (24:33)

I think that's really important for people to know. Can you name some other symptoms, like whether that might be behavioral or physical symptoms?

Alex Bleich  (24:42)

So I think grief and depression can go kind of hand in hand. If you're grieving, it doesn't inherently mean that you're depressed. But I think grieving can give way to depression, certainly. So when I think about this stuck grief and the physical symptoms, maybe we just feel heavy. It's almost like we're having to push through jello almost, right? We're in this slog where things just feel immensely heavy. Things feel maybe we're fatigued or we're just like chronically tired. Maybe we've really withdrawn from people. We're isolating, right? We're not taking care of ourselves. We're not going to work. Our ability to kind of function in the world just kind of falls by the wayside and it just grief really just takes over everything.

Lisa Weiss (25:30)

Absolutely. And I'm curious too, like especially because I know you work with like preteens, teens and adults. How might a caregiver be able to identify some of these symptoms like in a preteen or a teen? Like what are some of the things they might be seeing or noticing?

Alex Bleich  (25:46)

Yeah, I think that isolation piece, not engaging with their friends as much, maybe having school refusal, having a hard time getting to school, having a hard time, yeah, maybe losing interest in some of their activities, right? So maybe there was, you have a teenager who is a big soccer player and all of a sudden maybe they played soccer with dad, right? And now it's like this avoidance. I can't even think about getting on the soccer field again, right?

I think those behavioral changes are really big in the preteen, teen kiddo kind of age range where, yeah, you might see that in some adults too, but the kids might be having these experiences or these feelings and not even connected necessarily to the loss, not connected to the fact that, I have this, I'm grieving. There's this big loss that I've experienced.

Lisa Weiss (26:37)

Yeah, yeah, and I think too about like even the irritability or like, you know, they're really not themselves anymore.

Alex Bleich  (26:43)

Yeah, absolutely. Any kind of like appetite changes, any kind of sleep changes, maybe sleeping too little, sleeping or sleeping too much, right? Again, chronic fatigue, that tiredness. Absolutely, the irritability is a big one in free teens, teens, of course. But yeah, I think knowing the signs to kind of look out for can be really helpful and hopefully getting your kids some support that they might need.

Lisa Weiss (27:07)

Absolutely. Yeah, and I think too of even just like that, that like you had mentioned this before, but just the social isolation of like, you know, not wanting to go and hang out with friends or just like shutting down completely. And like you said, the school refusal, which I think it's so wonderful now that like we have so many great school counselors that we connect with. And so being able to like lean on the school counselors for support, if that's something that like a caregiver is experiencing.

Alex Bleich  (27:32)

Absolutely. Yeah, I think, you know, in my work with clients and my work with school, try to, and I work with the schools to try to get us all on that same page so that we can get that functioning level back up. Again, it's not something that we're getting over necessarily, but it's something that we're learning to integrate into our lives.

Lisa Weiss (27:50)

Absolutely, and school is such a huge part of a child's life. So making sure that everybody is all on the same page and how do we collaborate to best help this child.

Alex Bleich  (27:58)

Yeah, absolutely. I think about the social piece too. And as a kid, if you've lost a parent, that's not an experience that everyone faces. So I think that also contributes to some of that isolation and withdrawal. Like, well, my peers don't really get me. They don't really understand what I'm going through. Maybe they've lost, they can understand griefs, sort of. If they've lost a grandparent or if they've lost a pet, certainly that's not to minimize that pain. But I think there's a different experience with being a kid and not having the family unit that you think that everybody else has.

Lisa Weiss (28:35)

And that again, going back to that comparison piece, it's so hard for kids to not compare to be like, well, like our family doesn't look like so and so's family anymore.

Alex Bleich  (28:45)

Absolutely.

Lisa Weiss (28:46)

Okay, yeah, no, I think that's, it's such an important thing to be, to just be mindful of for those caregivers and be on the lookout and to know that there's like proper support out there.

I guess as far as like moving into adulthood and ⁓ like the work of meaning making, what tends to happen when grief resurfaces in adulthood, sometimes decades later? I know you mentioned like weddings, like bigger milestones. Is that where you typically see it resurfacing?

Alex Bleich  (29:12)

Sometimes I think it's really common, especially if we've lost a parent at a young age, maybe you were too young to understand, or maybe we weren't developmentally ready to process it. Or maybe a lot of times you go into survival mode, right? We're just trying to get through each day. So we learn to compartmentalize, I think, out of necessity. But ultimately, like I said, we can't outrun grief. At one point or another, it's going to finally catch up. And it might not show up in that way that we expect. So yes, it might be overt in those milestones or those next exciting new chapters of our lives. But it also might manifest in anger or irritability, anxiety, numbness, or even like you said, those physical symptoms. Maybe we have increased fatigue or body aches or we're shutting people out. So I think it's very different for everyone. We might struggle with sleep or have intrusive thoughts. We might not even be able to connect it to that old loss, especially if it's been, like you're saying, years or even decades later know that something doesn't feel right, something feels off. But our bodies and minds remember, even when we think we've like dealt with it or handled it, the grief was always there. But now maybe it just it's finally safe enough to feel it.

Lisa Weiss (30:20)

Mm-hmm, for sure. something that I tell clients is grief triggers grief, just like I say, trauma triggers trauma. So it's like, you you experience another loss and, you know, maybe that's the loss of a pet. And then it's like, it feels very similar to the loss of a parent, like just like another attachment figure. So it doesn't even necessarily have to be another person or even like the loss of a job and like those kinds of feelings that are associated with the previous loss. So knowing that like it's like the strings, the strings of grief and how they're attached.

Alex Bleich  (30:50)

Yes, I think things are more connected than we give ourselves or give it the credit for. Yes.

Lisa Weiss (30:56)

So how can grief show up in relationships with partners, friends, or even our own children?

Alex Bleich  (31:05)

Yeah, I think that's a great question because grief doesn't happen in isolation, right? So it impacts every relationship in our lives. As adults, maybe with partners, it can create some distance, right? Maybe we're kind of emotionally shut down because we're protecting ourselves from more pain. And now maybe your partner feels locked out. Maybe we're so overwhelmed by grief that intimacy, whether that's physical or emotional, just feels impossible.

I think I see a lot of times communication breaks down because we don't really have words for what we're feeling or because maybe our partner doesn't really know how to support us. I think grief can also bring up conflict around things like how do I spend the holidays? Do we talk about the deceased? How much space to give grief in our shared life? I think some partners can be incredible supports and then others might struggle with that long-term nature of grief and unintentionally say hurtful things. You're still, this is still coming up for you like all this time later. And then I think with friends, there's this gap in understanding too, right? Maybe they said the right things early on when we were in that acute grief, but maybe they don't know how to show up for you years later. And I think that can feel really frustrating or isolating like no one really gets us. And sometimes friends disappear because grief makes them feel uncomfortable or they assume you're over it. So they stop checking in. I think that loss of support ⁓ can compound that original loss, like you're saying, like that grief kind of, you know, compounds grief and makes us feel even more alone. And then when I think about parenting, think grief can really impact our ability to be present, our capacity to kind of be engaged when we're carrying that heavy weight of sadness, exhaustion, numbness, anger, right? It's hard to have patients engage playfully or be like emotionally available to your kids. So maybe you find yourself more easily overwhelmed or triggered or there's a complexity, I think, of maybe parenting without your own parent even there to guide you. I think that can bring up some feelings, that longing for advice or reassurance or just somebody that understands you. So I think it affects everything. There isn't one relationship, I don't think, that doesn't have some kind of ripple down or trickle down effect.

Lisa Weiss (33:13)

Of course, absolutely, because it is like, it's so heavy and it takes up so much brain space that it is really hard to be present for other people. I think something that I hear often is just like, there's that outreach early on after the loss of someone and then it's like that really fizzles after a month or two. And like then, like you said, nobody's there checking on you and like that feels super complicated to be like well do they not care about me anymore or like I think it can complicate relationships and friendships.

Alex Bleich  (33:46)

Yeah, absolutely. And then it puts pressure, I think, on the person who is grieving to be the one that's reaching out for support too, right? When people stop kind of checking in. And even though that's so common, yeah. And we know in the grief field that within that three to six month range is usually when people really stop kind of checking in. Again, I think that just further kind of, like you're saying, complicates things because it kind of feeds into that narrative that this is something that we should be getting over, like that pain. The grief and all of the intense feelings that we're feeling should just dissipate in that six month mark and that's just not, unfortunately that's not realistic.

Lisa Weiss (34:22)

No, it is not. I think it like further makes people feel isolated in that experience again.

Alex Bleich  (34:27)

Yeah.

Lisa Weiss (34:29)

Yes. Okay. So what role can therapy play when someone revisits their grief years down the road?

Alex Bleich  (34:37)

Yeah, I think therapy can be incredibly helpful even or maybe even especially years after the loss. So David Kessler, I don't know if you're familiar with him, but he is an expert, for those who aren't, he is an expert in grief work and in the field of grief. He has this beautiful metaphor that grief is like a forest and a grief therapist is like a forest ranger who is helping you kind of navigate through it. You don't have to walk through it alone and you don't have to know the way, but we face things when we're ready. And for many people, ready comes years or even decades after that loss, right? I had talked a little earlier about that idea that we compartmentalize and we're kind of, go into that survival mode. So, you know, I think years later, if it is resurfacing, a grief therapist can help you kind of make sense of what you're feeling, especially when it shows up in those unexpected ways that isn't just sadness, maybe like the anger or anxiety or those like relationship struggles. You know, in my work, I try to create a safe space to finally say, to allow my clients to finally say the things that they've never maybe never been able to say out loud or like those complicated feelings, the guilt, the anger at your parent for dying, right? The grief over the relationship that you didn't get to have. I view therapy as a way to kind of hopefully help you untangle that delayed grief from whatever the present day stressors are, whether it was, like you said, whether it was a loss of a pet or some other kind of loss that triggered this, or if it just kind of showed up unexpectedly one day. You know, I think crucially a therapist won't rush you. Again, there is no timeline, whether it's been five years or 25 years, the Greek is valid and there is support out there to help you again navigate through that forest.

Lisa Weiss (36:10)

I love that metaphor. have not heard that yet. But it makes so much sense and to know too that like they have a support person like in their corner that's going to help them walk through this at their own pace. Like there is no timeline. We are not sprinting through the forest. Like we are going to navigate this on your terms. I think that's so beautiful.

Alex Bleich  (36:28)

Yeah, I hadn't heard it until recently. And I was like, yeah, that is so true. Because it can feel like this dark, scary mess that we are trying to go through, often for the first time. And even if it isn't the first time, every forest, I think, looks differently. So it's not my job to necessarily tell you how to go. It's just to walk it with you and maybe help chop down some of the overgrowth that might be in the way.

Lisa Weiss (36:52)

Yeah, you do not have to walk that alone. And I think it's especially important that people have a therapist that understands grief. I think it is such a unique niche. I think there are general therapists who work with a variety of things. But having that niche, think, is so important.

Alex Bleich  (36:54)

Yeah, like I said, it feels meaningful for me in like this full circle way that, you know, I experienced this loss. It was terrible. But yeah, I'm able to help others kind of navigate and that feels like I'm making meaning or finding meaning all of these years later.

Lisa Weiss (37:28)

Absolutely. OK. So what helps people really integrate grief into their story without being defined?

Alex Bleich  (37:35)

Yeah. I think the first step really is recognizing that it's not a problem to solve, right? Or like this chapter to close. I look at grief as this like thread that runs through our entire life story. But the important piece is that it's not your whole story. Integration means acknowledging, this loss happened to me without letting it become this loss is all I am. Right? So and how do do that? I think it starts with giving ourselves again, grace and permission to feel multiple things at once. It's both and, not either or. We can miss our parent deeply and still live a fulfilling life. We can take agency and decide how we want to tell our story. I would encourage us not to be passive. You need to actively choose how grief fits into the bigger picture of who you are. Your loss is part of you, of course, but it's not all of you. Practically, this might look like creating those rituals to honor them without it totally consuming your life, building those support systems that acknowledge that, know, acknowledge our loss, acknowledge this terrible thing that we went through, but also see your wholeness, see who you are as a person outside of this loss, engaging in therapy maybe to help process any of the painful hard stuff so that it doesn't fester. And maybe most importantly, like giving ourselves that permission to continue living. I think that's like the biggest thing that I can trust others is that It is okay to continue on with your life.

Lisa Weiss (38:57)

And I think that's such an important piece too that you had mentioned of like not doing this passively. Like what does that typically look like for people if they're more taking that more like passive approach?

Alex Bleich  (39:08)

Yeah, I think a passive maybe approach is like, yeah, we can acknowledge the grief, but we're not doing anything about it. Maybe there's that avoidance, like I said, of we're not going to go to any of places maybe that remind us of our parents. So maybe they really liked this one restaurant in town, and now I can't at all order from there. can't go in and sit down there. We're passive in that, that we're, okay, we're gonna avoid and we're not gonna allow ourselves to experience the pain. And I understand why we do that, but taking a more active role certainly is, okay, I know that I've like avoided this restaurant for forever and you know what, I'm gonna place an order and I'm gonna door dash that meatball sub that I know that, you know, dad really liked or whatever it is. I think that's the difference.

Lisa Weiss (40:00)

Yes, it sounds like taking some of that power back or that's more in your control rather than just allowing these, you have to be avoidant and not going to those kinds of places. It sounds like something is kind of controlling that situation, whereas you can take baby steps. Like you said, door dash the meatball step. You don't have to go into the restaurant. You don't have to drive anywhere. But I think that's wonderful. And being able to take things at their own pace

Alex Bleich  (40:23)

Yeah, absolutely. I think it makes a lot of sense. It's very easy for us to take that very passive role because it's giving us this false sense of comfort. But it's that false sense of comfort. We're in what became our comfort zone. But I always ask clients, is that all that comfortable? Is our comfort zone all that comfortable? Or has it just become normalized to us? So we have to push ourselves into a little bit more of what we call the growth zone, the stretch zone, so that we can, yeah. All right, I don't have to go physically into that restaurant, but what can I do? I can take back some of that control. can take back some of the power and I'm gonna, yeah, door dash or grub hub or whatever it is. And I don't even need to talk to anybody. I can just do it on an app. It is baby steps.

Lisa Weiss (41:04)

Yes, yeah, and it makes me think like the more we avoid things, the bigger that like anxiety gets. but also making sure like you're ready and feel like you have the proper supports to move into that stuff.

Alex Bleich  (41:14)

Yes, that's the other piece certainly is like having a support system, you know, whether that means your partner is there with you to make that scary step or, you know, you have a friend on standby that if you start, you know, feeling things that you can call and say like, this was really hard for me. You know, I think it's multiple things that are happening in that process.

Lisa Weiss (41:34)

Yes, yeah, the support's so necessary. So I think that's such a wonderful and important piece to healing. So I guess as far as just like guidance for listeners, for someone who lost a parent young and finds their grief resurfacing now, what is something that you would want them to know?

Alex Bleich  (41:52)

Yeah, first I want them to know you're not broken, right? You're not going backwards. It's completely normal. Grief doesn't follow a timeline. And it doesn't mean that you did something wrong if it resurfaces years or, like I said, even decades later. Grief doesn't expire. It's completely normal for it to resurface, especially around those new life stages as we continue living. You're not the same person you were when they died. So of course, you're going to grieve them differently now. It's not something that we need to fix. not something to pathologize. It's just our heart reminding us that that love doesn't end. Honor it, feel it, know that needing support years later doesn't mean you're failing. It means that you're human.

Lisa Weiss (42:27)

Yeah, and you're continuing to grow in life and it's okay to need that support.

Alex Bleich  (42:31)

Absolutely.

Lisa Weiss (42:32)

Okay, so I guess as far as like what can friends, partners or loved ones do that's actually supportive versus what we often default to saying.

Alex Bleich  (42:42)

Yeah, we had that conversation about support kind of dying off, right, in those like three to six months. So I really encourage checking in consistently, not just in that immediate aftermath, check in on those anniversaries, the holidays, the birthdays, simple texts like, hey, I this week might be really hard for you, but I'm thinking of you and your mom and sending you love, I think can mean everything, right? We talked about the idea that grief can feel so isolating. And they might not have the energy to ask for support, or they might feel silly. Five years later, why am I feeling this so intensely? So reaching out first, I think, lets them know that you're there. You're in their corner. They have your support. Knowing that grief has no timeline. isn't linear. Even if they appear fine and then have a really hard day out of nowhere, don't assume that they're over it just because time has passed. Those milestones, like we've talked about, weddings, graduations, becoming a parent, I think can bring those fresh waves of grief and anticipate those times and offer some of that extra support without them having to ask. I can't express how nice that is to just know that we have that support without being the one that has to be like, hey, I'm having a really hard time. I think so many people avoid mentioning the deceased because they're afraid that talking about their loved one is going to make their friends sad. Chances are your friend's already aware, your friend's already thinking about them, right? Again, because it's this ongoing process. So bringing them up, I think, also shows them that you haven't forgotten, right? You can say their parents' name, ask about them. Hey, what was your dad like? Or I'd love to hear a story about your mom. It gives them permission, I think, to keep that person alive and in conversation. As far as what not to do, I think using classic unhelpful phrases like, well, they're in a better place now, or, everything happens for reason or you're so strong. Like I think the intention is often good, but I think those phrases really just tend to minimize the pain instead of like actually acknowledging it. So instead I would say, try, I'm so sorry, know, this is really hard. I'm here whenever you need me or just tell me what you need right now and be okay with whatever they tell you, even if it is just silence.

Lisa Weiss (44:51)

Absolutely. No, I think those are all such important things. And you had mentioned this at the beginning, like grief is something we all experience, but we really often don't know how to handle it when we're confronted with it or if a loved one is confronted with it. And so I think those, just like that last bit is so helpful.

Alex Bleich  (45:09)

Yeah, it is. It's such a weird thing because it's something that all of us will experience at some point in our lives, maybe in different ways. But yeah, it's just like, I don't know if it's taboo to talk about or what it is. It's just not something that we are ever prepared enough for.

Lisa Weiss (45:24)

Absolutely. Okay, so if you could tell someone who's freshly grieving a parent, one thing that's ahead, what would you want them to hear?

Alex Bleich  (45:33)

Yeah, it does get better. I want them to know that like what they're feeling right now, that overwhelming pain, the disbelief, the frustration, the exhaustion, it won't feel this intense forever. And it's not because the loss becomes less significant or, you know, doesn't matter anymore. But instead, again, we'll develop a different capacity to be able to hold it. Right now, it might feel like we're being swallowed whole. But I promise you will find your way through this, even when you can't imagine how, right? Your pain is valid. You don't have to perform strength for everyone. I think it's okay to fall apart. And it's okay to need people to bear witness to your pain without trying to fix it. You know, it's not something that you have to be good at or get through quickly. Again, give yourself permission to feel whatever you're feeling, the sadness, the anger, the good, the bad, even the moments when we forget and feel okay. It's all part of that process. And I think something that I wish someone told me is that you will laugh again. Like you will experience joy without that guilt. You will have those good days. You will build a life that holds both the grief and the joy. Your parent's absence is always going to matter, but it won't always hurt this much. You'll carry them with you in different ways and memories and how we live and the person that we become, but, and the relationship, doesn't end, it changes. So, Be gentle with yourself, reach out for support when you need it, whether that's friends, family, or a therapist. Let people show up for you and trust that even though it feels impossible right now, you have everything you need within you to navigate this journey. And you will survive and you will find meaning and beauty in life again, even while carrying this loss and this pain.

Lisa Weiss (47:09)

And I'm sure that is so validating for people to hear. And even for those who are either experiencing this now or like this is something they've experienced in the past, like to know that that support is out there. And of course we highly recommend Alex. But yeah, so I thank you so much for opening up this conversation. And like you said before too, it feels… taboo in some circumstances where it's it's uncomfortable to talk about, but we have to learn how to sit in that discomfort. And there are people that are available to walk through this, these phases of life that like know the proper support. So I really appreciate this. Thank you so much. Yeah, of course.

Alex Bleich  (47:50)

There are forest rangers out there for you to help navigate. You don't have to do it alone.

Lisa Weiss (47:56)

Yes, oh my goodness. Well, I'm grateful that we have our own Forest Ranger here at Brave Minds.

Alex Bleich  (47:59)

I'm to be here.

Lisa Weiss (48:00)

All right, so any other messages that you think would be important for our listeners to hear before we end for today?

Alex Bleich  (48:06)

Yeah, think, again, if I could stress anything enough, it's just give yourself that grace, show yourself some self-compassion, do some self-care, right, beyond just throwing a face mask on. It's really listening to yourself and whatever you need. Even years later, if you're having a really bad day, it doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean that you're unhealed or that you're stuck in your grief. It just means, all right, I'm having a really bad day. Maybe I need to just take care of myself. Maybe that means I need to just put on a… know, some comfy clothes and give myself some love and watch a feel-good movie, right? Like, I think it's just learning to be intuitive and mindful and listening to getting to know ourselves and what we need.

Lisa Weiss (48:47)

Absolutely, yeah, and giving yourself grace and doing whatever you need to do. Yes, so again, thank you so much. I am very grateful that we were able to have this conversation today and I know for a fact this will be helpful for people to hear. So thank you so much.

Alex Bleich  (49:01)

Thank you for giving me a place to talk about this stuff.

Lisa Weiss (49:04)

Of course.

Lisa Weiss (49:06)

Thank you so much for joining us on Brave Minds, Healing Anxiety and Trauma. If you're ready to take the next steps in your healing journey, the therapists at Brave Minds are here to support you. Please reach out to BraveMindsNJ.com to learn more about our services or schedule a consultation. Please remember, this podcast is for informational purposes only and is not intended to diagnose or treat any mental health condition. Take good care and we'll see you next time.