Supporting the Mental Health of Young Athletes

This conversation offers valuable insights for parents into the mental health challenges young athletes face. Casey Conte, LCSW and Lisa Weiss, LCSW discuss performance pressure, perfectionism, burnout, and how parents can best support their children. They also touch on practical coping tools, the role of EMDR in healing, and the importance of finding balance in sports and life

[00:43] - Introduction to practical tools for understanding your mind and supporting your healing process.
[02:46] - Discussion on the sports social work certification and its impact on working with athletes.
[04:41] - Common challenges young athletes face during transitions, such as returning to school and balancing sports.
[07:19] - Advice for parents and caregivers on supporting kids' mental preparation for new seasons.
[08:28] - Importance of discussing activities outside of sports for a balanced lifestyle.
[10:19] - Early signs of emotional struggles in young athletes and performers.
[19:30] - Explanation of EMDR and its application with athletes.
[24:47] - Balancing pressure and expectations in sports and life.
[37:06] - Final takeaway message on remembering the joy and purpose behind participating in sports.

Lisa Weiss (00:00)

Hello everyone and welcome to Brave Minds, Healing Anxiety and Trauma, the podcast brought to you by Brave Minds Psychological Services in New Jersey. On this podcast, we explore the journey of healing, resilience and mental well-being. Whether you're navigating anxiety, processing trauma or supporting someone who is, you are in the right place. I'm Lisa Weiss, I'm a licensed mental health therapist here at Brave Minds and in each episode,

We'll dive into real conversation, expert insights, and practical tools to help you better understand your mind and support your healing process. In today's episode, we're chatting with Casey Conte. She is our therapist at the practice that specializes in working with athletes. And today we are talking all about athletes and their mental health. So before we begin, please remember that this podcast is for informational and educational purposes only. It's not intended to diagnose, treat, or replace professional mental health care.

If you're in crisis or need support, please reach out to a qualified health provider. You are not alone in this. Your healing matters. And let's jump in.

Lisa Weiss(01:04)

So thank you so much for joining us today. I'm super excited about this. I was just wanting to jump in, see how things are going, and have you introduce yourself to everyone?

Casey Conte  (01:15)

Yeah, definitely. Thanks for having me. I'm so excited that we're doing this. This is so cool.

Lisa Weiss(01:20)

Yes, absolutely.

Casey Conte  (01:21)

So I've been at Brave Minds for, my God, like three and a half years, I think, almost for it, which is crazy to say. And I see clients, see like tweens, like the middle school age, teens, young adults and adults. I usually work with clients working on maybe like depression, anxiety. Some like specific niches would be working with athletes. I've been diving into that recently, competitive athletes, which has been really cool. But I also see clients may be working on food allergy anxiety, for example. And I also work with some clients working on driving anxiety as well.

Lisa Weiss(01:54)

Yeah, and I think all of those are so cool and like important niches. And I would love to talk more about the the sports social work certification that you just got, which is so exciting and so unique. So yeah, I'd love to hear more about that and like, just just your work around that working with those athletes.

Casey Conte  (02:13)

Yeah, definitely. So yeah, I just did the sports social work training the last couple months over the summer. It's through like the University of Michigan. Another question had told me about it, which was really cool, but has really helped me to dive into working with athletes and just kind of like, I guess niche a little bit more, just have some more of that background. They've really covered everything like across the lifespan. So it's really cool to see and like, hear some background and more education on working with like, maybe like young like athletes, also like adult athletes as well, who are maybe transitioning out of sport or like just having a sport in like a different way. For me, I grew up as a competitive dancer. So to help and support clients going through similar things that I can like understand and relate to. It's like really cool circle for me. So it's really cool. I have a couple young dancer clients, which is really cool. Like some of the stuff is like, you know, I can relate to what they're talking about or some of like, you know, the people in the industry,So the sports social work training really kind of encompasses or I use it as an umbrella like I think of performing arts like you know dancers gymnasts Figure skaters, but also the sports side as well. Okay, so it kind of covers everybody for me. It's really cool

Lisa Weiss(03:20)

Yeah, that's amazing. And I think such a needed thing. And especially when we think about sports, oftentimes people are very focused on like the physical aspect and not so much the mental aspect of sports and training and just like an athlete in general. It's a huge component.

Casey Conte  (03:37)

Yeah, it's interesting. I feel like that was something that came up a lot in the training too of like finding, there was like a whole session on just like finding community within the sports social work community because it's growing, which is really cool. There was a lot of us in the training, which was awesome to see, but it is a really specific field. So it is hard to like maybe find like a supervisor, like somebody or like a community to work with when it comes to the sports, oh my God, I can't even say it, sports social work world. So it was cool to just like connect with other people in the field too ⁓ and to have them as like, you know, networking and supports too.

Lisa Weiss(04:09)

And I think this is like the perfect time as well to have this conversation just as kids are returning to school and many are jumping right back into the whole sports schedule while balancing academics. So I'm curious to hear from you, like what are some of the common challenges young athletes face during this transition. Like thinking about like even like elementary to high school or I know you typically work with like middle to high school. So if that's easier to jump in, I'd love to hear more.

Casey Conte  (04:37)

Yeah, I think transition itself is like its own like challenge and battle sometimes or I think doesn't get enough time or space. You know, I think kids are maybe just expected to kind of, you're doing this. So we're going back to school as if it's like easy when like, think it's like, it takes time to be able to transition or sometimes transition can be really hard for kids and teens, especially going from like summer things, relax, laid back, you know, maybe you're sleeping in every day. I know I used to like, into like waking up at this time or like some of like my athletes like you know like swimmers and stuff like they usually practice at like 5am before school starts. You know so like you're really jumping into like a really heavy schedule. Something right now that I think is really tough is everything is like a lot of tryouts right now so a of sports teams, a lot of school teams are having all their tryouts went out like soccer tryouts are right now but for any like anybody joining a competitive team, like gymnastics or dance, like usually you're auditioning right now to see if you're going to be on the competitive team or what dances you would be in specifically. So this is a really like, think it's a challenging time cause it's on top of like getting ready and going back to school, but all of these things to see what the year is going to bring. Cause that's going to determine, determine what your schedule is, you know, what classes you would be in, who else is in yourclass, a lot of comparison stuff may come up, know, what did you get? What did this person get? Did this person make the team? Did I make the team? know, so I think it's a lot of uncertainty right now, which is a pretty tough one.

Lisa Weiss(05:56)

Absolutely. Yeah, I think I'm having flashbacks to like doing cheer in elementary school and like having the list posted on the door like even in high school like, these are the people that made it. These are the people you know, if your name's not there, you didn't make it. yeah, I hope I don't do things like that anymore. It's traumatizing.

Casey Conte  (06:13)

Yeah, it's intense. Like you'd walk up to the board and see if you're on there. Sometimes you are, sometimes you aren't. Like I think now some people do like an individual meeting, which is really nice to kind go over where you're at, what place you'll be in. I know some dancers get like letters sent home, which is nice. Or like emails that kind of like send out like what their schedule will be. But I like the meeting aspect too, because it just goes over this is where you're going to play this year. This is what we're looking for. Like this is what we think in the future. So those kind of conversations are really nice and helpful for the athlete just so they can.even hone in on what they're going to, you know, maybe some goals or what they want to be working on for the year.

Lisa Weiss(06:43)

Absolutely rather than be left with those feelings of like I didn't make it and now what? Yeah, that's that's really hard and like you said before the whole comparison piece Yeah, and I guess too for some of our listeners because I imagine it's mostly parents Maybe there are some like young young adults or teens listening But what are some things that you would recommend or like advice or guidance you'd give parents or caregivers to help kids? Mentally prepare for new season both academically and athletically.

Casey Conte  (07:11)

Yeah, definitely. I think just having really good conversation and check-ins right now are so important just to kind of sit down, like see what are your goals for this year? Like, what do you want to be working on? What is like priority for you? Like, kids are so busy. Like, their schedules are so jam packed. I give them so much credit. So just to really prioritize, like, you know, what do you want to be working on? Like, how can I support you to just really see? Because everybody's like, I mean, sports and academic goals are gonna be different. We can all be on the same sport team, but we're all gonna be working on different things. Maybe somebody's trying to improve their endurance. Maybe someone's trying to really focus on a certain skill. There's all different positions. So we're all gonna be working on different things. Same academically as well. It really depends on what your goals are in the future. If you wanna get into a certain college, a certain major, everybody's gonna be different. So to have those conversations with your parents, I think it just puts everybody on the same page and also gives the team that autonomy and kind of power and confidence is what I want to work on, which is really nice. I will highlight too, it's also a really important time to talk about what you want to do outside of your sport and academics, because they're both very, they can be very competitive. So to really find balance and what do you want to be doing that's non-competitive, it's something that we really highlighted in the training is you want to have things self-care wise that are separate. any kind of, you know, mindfulness, self-care, any kind of some, individually talking about taking like a yoga class or a Pilates class, any kind of mindfulness things like puzzles. Some people like Legos, like coloring, just things outside of competition. So something totally separate from your sport is so necessary and needed to create that like healthy balance as well. So I think conversation about it is letting the child or teen know that it's okay to also be doing things and prioritizing things outside of sport and academics too, you know.

Lisa Weiss(08:54)

Absolutely, and I think that really ties into identity, like, and especially thinking about, one's identity as an athlete and, you know, life happens and injuries can happen. And once an athlete sits out, it's like, okay, now what do I do? And being able to have those hobbies outside of the sport allows people to lean into those things during times where maybe they can't be competitive or participate in the same capacity.

Casey Conte  (09:17)

gosh, yeah. It really, if we're honing in so much or too much, mean too much of anything, right? But specifically with sport, if we're almost relying on it or dependent on it. And don't get me wrong, it can feel so confident and so proud to say that I am this, I am a dancer, I am a golfer, whatever it is that you participate in. There's pride in that and I understand that too. And it can be helpful to also think about what are other parts of you that are really, really important so you have those other pieces as well. In case your sport is taken away for different reasons, whether it's injury, whether you move away, whether it's financial reasons as well, which unfortunately can happen too. So you want to have things that, you know, all the things that are important to you. Absolutely. That balance.

Lisa Weiss(09:58)

Yes, yes. And I think another important thing to touch on, as we're talking about parents and things like that, what are some early signs that a young athlete or performer may be struggling emotionally even when they seem fine on the surface?

Casey Conte  (10:17)

Yeah, that's a good one. think it can be hard to miss sometimes. sometimes I think too, kids and teens don't even maybe know that things feel different or things may feel funky. sometimes that autopilot kicks in where it's just like you're going through the motions, but you're not really enjoying it. We're not super excited or super thrilled. It just really stagnant along the way. But I think that's hard to point out sometimes too.Which is why I think just like those check-ins, how are things going? Like every once in a while can be really important. I think any changes like you're eating or sleeping are big ones sometimes. Like sometimes we lose our appetite. Sometimes we're not sleeping. Sometimes we're sleeping too much. Sometimes it's really hard to get to school in the morning. Like I just can't get up and go, which can happen. Some like physiological things too. Like sometimes I've seen kids and teens respond to like get really sick before practice or before a game. Like they get nauseous or they throw up before a game. So sometimes the body responds or is kind of letting us know that like something doesn't feel right too. So if that's something that's coming up, that could be like a flag as well. I'm trying to think of anything I'm missing or maybe not highland.

Lisa Weiss(11:15)

Yeah, no, this makes a lot of sense too. And I imagine like isolating from friends and from family, getting home from practice and going straight to their room and not really wanting to, you know, go out and spend time with friends or even sit down for family dinner. So those like behavioral changes, I imagine as well.

Casey Conte  (11:32)

Yeah, and I feel like there's a lot of team kind of like ⁓ team bonding things like maybe go out to eat after and stuff like that or you know you have like a some teams do like the pasta nights and stuff like so like maybe they don't want to engage or you know they want to just go home after too yeah maybe not seeing friends or like isolating or not responding back to that's definitely a good one good point.

Lisa Weiss(11:51)

Yeah, I'm curious if a parent sees or a parent guardian sees their teen or preteen experiencing these sorts of changes, how would you recommend addressing this? I know sometimes parents will go to a pediatrician, which is great to have that sort of check in, make sure everything is going well physically. What are some other things you'd recommend, especially for our listeners, if they notice that their kiddo is isolating or having trouble sleeping or getting sick before practice?

Casey Conte  (12:18)

Yeah, definitely. yeah, it's tough. think it's definitely I think seeing the pediatrician is totally helpful. Like it's always good to roll out and like just check into and also the pediatrician may be the one to recommend, you know, seeing a therapist as well if they feel like that's necessary. Sometimes they do like the quick like scales like depression scales in the office too. So that can kind of give a little bit more of information. So yeah, I think it's always good to have conversation to see if like they need more or less like support if they want to check in with a school counselor like that's always an option too. If they want to check in with their coach or if they want to recommend like seeing a therapist like of course that's can always be so helpful. So I think it's always okay to just have those open conversations of who they feel like they would like to talk to somebody, you know, besides their parents,  just to have their own like support in a different way. So it could be like reaching out to a therapist, or if you want to, you know, check in person with somebody at school or with the coach as well. I think those are always options.

Lisa Weiss(13:07)

Yeah, and I think that sounds great too. And especially knowing that there are therapists out there that really specialize in working with athletes and there's not that need for a client to come in and explain the commitment behind being an athlete and all that goes into it. It's like working with a therapist who truly gets it, both on like that personal and professional level, which I think is so unique and so important.

Casey Conte  (13:29)

Yeah, no, absolutely. I'm curious if you had this come up too. Like it's really common for if athletes have gone to somebody for support about their sport, you know, maybe saying like it doesn't feel something feels wrong or it's off lately kind of thing, explain them where they're at. And typically the response is like, maybe you should quit. And it's like so invalidating for the athlete to where it's like, that's totally not where I'm at. Like, you know, I want to get back to it or you know, maybe we're really competitive or doing something in college like a D1 athlete, like it's going to be hard, there's going to be ebbs and flows, you know, so the automatic response to quit is like so invalidating for an athlete who spend so much time, you know, so much time and energy into their sport, into their athletics. So that can be, um, it's really invalidating, you know, for a team as well. I'm curious that has like, does that ever come up with questions too?

Lisa Weiss(14:14)

All the time, yes. Yeah, and I can tell you, it's so unfortunate, you know, when an equestrian athlete goes in and wants to work on particular things with a therapist, maybe it's been a bad fall or just dealing with different like dynamics at the barn and then the guidance is, well, maybe you should take a break or like, maybe, you know, this is not for you. And it's the same thing with other athletes. It's like dedicated to the sport and the love of the animal and all those sorts of things. So that's why. I think it's equally as important to work with a clinician who gets that side of things as well. It's a commitment, it's identity, it's the community, all of those sorts of things. It's not as easy as just being like, okay, I'm gonna put this down.

Casey Conte  (14:52)

Yeah, no, absolutely. Like, yeah, some of the, you know, athletes that you're talking to, like they've been doing their sports since like two, three, four years old, right? You know, like how long have you been riding horses? Like, you know, it's a part of who you are, a part of your life. It's just to take a break. Like, yeah, it can be helpful. Every once in while, if we really talk it through and see that's what we need. I've definitely talked with some clients about like, you know, I think it's my time to like, I want to move on to something else. And like, that's very much okay too. But to jump into that right off the bat can be super invalidating if that's not their goals and not what they're looking for, know?

Lisa Weiss(15:22)

Yeah, and totally dismissive. And I think if an athlete comes to you and wants to transition out of that sport or wants to hit pause, think finding support during that time is also important because there can be grief with that of like letting go of something that has been part of their life for so long and really tied into their value and their worth and who they are as a person. I think that's another big part of I know for sure what I do with my equestrian clients and I'm sure that's what you do with your athletes.

Casey Conte  (15:52)

That's such a good point. Yeah, it really can be grieving like a part of our life. And that definitely does come up with some like adult athletes as well, or just like, you know, changes in the body, we can't play in maybe the same way that we used to kind of thing. Or even if we do get to come back from an injury, we still are going to be a different athlete than we were before the injury, you know, that's something that comes up a lot to I think, social norm wise, like any age level like a quick speedy recovery is like expected or like the norm, right? Like yeah, get better do your thing get back immediately And it's like wait a second like, you know, like are we doing all the things did we get cleared to come back? Have we worked on this like on the emotional and like mental side of it? Like it can be hard just to jump right back into things after like an injury or being out for an extended period of time and the anticipation or the anxiety or like, what is this going to be? How am going to do? Am I going to be the same athlete I was like, there is so much pressure, you know, to dump back in. But I think it really is like almost the unrealistic expectation out there sometimes that we should just get right back into it kind of thing.

Lisa Weiss(16:52)

Yeah, and not having those like proper supports in place or just like the expectation or not giving ourselves enough grace when we're cleared by the doctor to head back into whatever sport that might be. And yeah, to work your way and your body back up to where you were before. I know it was last fall when I had an injury. I was out of the saddle for a few months. like getting back to that, was like, you know, you're not the rider that you were a few months ago before the injury and having to be very careful and cautious around those sorts of things. So it's a lot for athletes to deal with.

Casey Conte  (17:28)

my gosh, yeah, it's really really tough and like we What we want to normalize is like that's okay like giving yourself grace or it may feel nerve-wracking It may not be the best practice like getting back into it things may be different So like that changes like what we want to really hone in on our valid that it's okay You know if we don't immediately get back to it or we need some more help than we thought actually Maybe we try to jump back into you know kids want to be excited They want to get back to what they're doing and it's like my gosh, like this felt like maybe different or maybe it feels really intimidating, you know? So it's okay to need support in those moments, absolutely. Definitely helps a handful of young athletes like transition back into their sport. And I think like that prep is just like so necessary and needed.

Lisa Weiss(18:08)

Mm-hmm and the psycho education around like what you might be experiencing ahead of time or like while you're jumping back into it and Like maybe there's an uptick in anxiety and what does that feel like in our body and what can we do in those moments for ourselves? So I think that's all really really important stuff like just the education behind it because that's part of the prep

Casey Conte  (18:27)

Yeah, absolutely. I'm thinking of some, like any more of like the performance kind of aspect to like stepping back on the stage for the first time. ⁓ Definitely done some EMDR with that as well. Just like those certain maybe like performances, gymnasts as well, know, certain routines or floor routines that maybe we had an injury or didn't go as planned, you know, like maybe we had a fall. You know, sometimes we forget our routine and that can be like really scary. We kind of blank out like it happens. So to go back and do that again for the first time can be So overwhelming, you know, so to kind of go back to that specific memory and you know Let ourselves know like it's not our fault like, know, it happens I did the best I could like I can get back out there like all these things are so important

Lisa Weiss(19:04)

Yes, yeah, and I'm curious now that you brought up EMDR, can you tell us a little bit more about what EMDR is and how that works with your athletes?

Casey Conte  (19:13)

So EMDR is eye movement desensitization reprocessing. I like to think of EMDR as taking memories that we've had stored in a certain place in the brain. I think of it like a file folder. That's why it was a claim to clients. You're going to pull out the file folder, the filing cabinet, right? All the different files that we have where these memories are stored. EMDR kind of brings up these memories. and tries to move them into a place where you can feel that they're resolved, that you've worked through it. So maybe we're holding on to something where it's like, this memory made me feel not good enough. I didn't do the best I could. Like, this was my fault. So EMDR wants to take it up out of that folder and then kind of file it into a place where we can say, you know, I did the best I could. And when something feels unresolved, it kind of sticks to us like glue. So when we're able to work through some of these, you know, maybe target memories or distressing memories, it kind of like makes it feel a little bit further away where we just file it in long term memory. It doesn't mean that it's not important. It doesn't mean that, you know, it doesn't impact us or it didn't impact us back then. It's just that we can file it in a place in long term memory where we can say that we move forward from it. That's always a sign for me too, if somebody's in an EMDR session and they're like, you know, the memory kind of feels further away. like, yeah, it's just so rewarding to hear. I'm so excited for the client where it's just like, you can put that in the past, but that also emphasizes to how close it was to them. That's why things can feel so triggering in the moment because it's not resolved. So it feels like we're right back in that moment sometimes. So to of file it in a different way or to store it in a different way. think of, I always bring up Inside Out too. I always recommend that anybody ever, like always watches Inside Out. It really talks about how you store the memories and stuff.

Lisa Weiss(20:49)

Yeah, yeah, not having that same sort of, like, response to that particular memory. Like you said, like, it feels so far away. It's not that, like, oh, like that tightness in my chest anymore, or whatever, whatever might be attached to that. And I think for athletes, too, EMDR is so wonderful, because I've seen this with equestrian clients where something happens to them that's traumatic or just scary in general, and all some, not the everything, but some other stuff comes bubbling back up to the surface. whether that is equestrian related or, you know, related to some other time in their life where it was traumatic or scary, or they didn't feel worthy, all the memories flood. So then it gives us the opportunity to work through all of those sorts of things, because that like those, those memories are all connected to one another.

Casey Conte  (21:36)

Mm hmm. Yeah. such a good point. Yeah. When you're you could be processing this one thing or come in, you know, I want to work on this thing that happened. But then with EMDR to all the flooding comes up or all the different memories that are still in that file folder. Yeah. Such a good point. So you could be talking about something, you know, that happened to you a week ago and then likely be going back to something from like childhood, you know, in the same breath. So interesting where the mind goes, right.

Lisa Weiss(21:58)

And it's so healing because all of those things are attached and once we're able to tackle one of those memories, we're able to move on to the next. And then we're not carrying all of that stuff with us anymore. I think that's such, it's such a cool modality. I love EMDR and I love how applicable it is to athletes and performers.

Casey Conte  (22:14)

Yeah, absolutely. It can be so helpful for those like specific like incidences, whether like an injury or like a specific performance, but also to I think just to kind of dive to relying core belief of like not feeling good enough, for example, kind of just open it up, like see where it goes, see where it takes us, dive into like the different parts that can always be helpful for identity as well. Or some stuff that maybe we've like forgotten or like repressed along the way to, you EMDR can sometimes bring some of those things to the surface. So it's like, I totally forgot about this memory. But there's something that's bringing it up for that reason, you know, so it's, and I also think too, if it is coming up, like we've been storing that somewhere in the body for so long. So it's coming up now so you can process it and again, like, you know, file it where it can be stored in a safe space.

Lisa Weiss(22:57)

Yes, yeah, for sure. And I think too with, with athletes, if we're focused on those particular memories that are associated with, you know, whether it was a performance or a game or whatever that might be, it sometimes feels safer, quote unquote, to tap into some of that stuff. And then when the other stuff comes up, it's like, wait, I didn't want to talk about that. But like, you're already in the safe space to process and work with these things. So I think it can be helpful on so many different levels of like, I wasn't going to bring that up, but now that we're here, it gives people the opportunity to work through it.

Casey Conte  (23:27)

Yeah, yeah, no, that's so true, right? Like sometimes we don't plan on it or maybe we didn't want to go there, you know, to but like we say, like, go with that, like, you're going there for like a reason, like, keep it, you know, that flooding is happening. So if it's coming up, there may be some kind of connection of the two things too. But yeah, this is the space to do it. And usually the, you know, the bilateral back and forth can really help with working through some of those like really difficult, whether it's something that you planned on talking about or not planned on talking about something that's, you know, challenging to speak on.

Lisa Weiss(23:55)

And I'm really glad because I know that was part of what we wanted to chat about today is just the EMDR work. So and I'm sure that we'll circle back to some of that stuff as we Contenue to talk. But I also think it'd be great for our listeners to hear more about like just how to like balance the pressure and the expectations. There's often a lot of pressure to quote unquote like do it all with school, sports, social life. How can listeners or families help guide their children to like finding that balance? I know we talked about finding hobbies outside of, you know, the particular sport. What are some other ways that like people can find balance and how would they know they've achieved that?

Casey Conte  (24:35)

Yeah, no, this is such an important question. Like I have so many thoughts on this one.So when we think of a healthy athlete, the balance is so important. So we want to be highlighting an athlete's needs on the physical side of things, the mental health and emotional side of things, socially and spiritually as well. So when we really target and find balance in all of those areas, that really produces the best outcomes long term for athletes because they are having that balance. If they are feeling balanced, then we're reducing burnout. Overworking the body, if we're overworking, we could be more prone to injury and then re-injury So that balance is so important. And it also ties into like we were speaking of before too with identity So to really, I think it's another conversation really with parents as well, just to highlight that like, it's okay that we're talking about all of these things or again, to do self care that's outside of those competitive components just to really highlight that we want to be focusing on all components of the athletes, not just the physical practices, more and more and more kind of thing. So that balance is so needed and necessary for those long-term outcomes.

Lisa Weiss(25:38)

Absolutely. And you touched on something I think that's really important that I'm not quite sure that it's talked about enough. Like I know, especially in the equestrian sport, like people do not talk about burnout enough. I'm not sure if that's like that within dance and things, but what are some signs of burnout like for athletes and for performers?

Casey Conte  (25:56)

Yeah, absolutely. think just like that overall. So burnout too, think of like the mental, emotional and like physical exhaustion. So we were just like tired all around. I think of when we are on edge, like maybe we're a little bit more irritated, a little bit more quickly. Like our tolerance is really low for things, but just that total like low motivation, no drive to like go to practices, go to games. ⁓ We're not feeling like fulfilled after a practice or a game. Like I think about like now, like when I leave the gym, like how like satisfying it is, you but if it's just like, we're not getting that relief after, you know, we do our sport for fun, to feel fulfilled, to enjoy our time because we love it. You know, like those are all the goals that we sometimes forget about when we're doing more, more, more practices, more time. So burnout, really just kind of takes away all of those, things that we're, why we're doing what we're doing, you know? If that makes sense.

Lisa Weiss(26:47)

Does it doesn't and to to be grounded enough to notice these kinds of changes or for parents to notice these kinds of changes within their kids especially when there are early mornings and late nights because like what is the normal amount of fatigue versus like is is my child burning out or am i burning out

Casey Conte  (27:04)

Spot on though, because it's just like, again, I think we can get really caught up in doing more more and more and then it's kind of like the comparison around us too. They're doing practices, should I be doing more practices? Like they have a personal trainer, should I have a personal trainer? know, like, so I think it can get a lot really quickly. But yeah, sometimes it just like the burnout really takes away like that enjoyment, like that why we're doing our sport, what it brings us, you know, like I think of like your videos in the morning, like I always watch your riding videos in the morning because they just seem so peaceful. Like I can't imagine what that's like for you every day. Like, and imagine if it just like didn't feel like that, you know, if they're just like, I don't want to do that, you know, like it's just, it really takes away, like it's like, when someone says like taking the wind out of your sails, I think the burnout, you know, there's not ourselves.

Lisa Weiss(27:47)

Yeah, yeah, such an important thing to be aware of, both for, you know, ourselves and for like parents listening in to be like, is my kid like, is does my kid seem happy doing these sorts of things? I, you know, dragging them to practice? Am I bribing them to get to practice? Yeah.

Casey Conte  (28:03)

Yeah, I think things too, or it's like maybe they don't want to go today. Like, you know, I really don't want to go and it's like, yeah, bribing like, well, all your friends are going or maybe I don't want to take this class. I just want to do these two classes, you know, and it's like, well, all your friends are doing them. Do you want to do it like that? And like create so much like funkiness, you know, too. So we want to listen to like our athletes on what they want to be doing again, what their goals and priorities are in their sport as well. something else I want to mention too on this is, when it comes to like specializing really early. So I'm thinking about our younger athletes when it comes to like my nieces, you know, they're doing dance, they're doing soccer, they're doing cheer, like they're doing some acting classes, like they're trying to all different things to see what they really like, you know, and that's so important for young athletes to try out and see what you want to do. But also it's really helpful in the body as well. It's so helpful to be doing and engaging in different types of sport or activities or performances because it helps us to be dynamic in that way if we are specializing too. I think it's a misconception sometimes, sometimes to like specialize really early and to be starting, you know, the younger they're going to be doing it, they're going to be great by the time they're, you know, eight, nine, 10 years old, where that's actually it's really intense on the body for such a young person to be doing these things at such a young age. I'm thinking of an interview I saw with Allie Raisman too. She's like, you know, some of the things that I did as a gymnast, like my body is never the same or will never recover from some of those things because that's typically what we were the typical body should be doing, you know? So when we hone in too early or when we specialize too early, it actually can be like a setback sometimes on the body. to try out different things like it can be really nice to encourage kids to try out different things and see what they want to do before they really hone in and specialize on a specific sport or performance that they want to do.

Lisa Weiss(29:42)

Absolutely. you know, to, as you said before, with like opening those lines of communication and checking in with kids of like how, how they're feeling about this particular how they're feeling about the coaches and all those sorts of things. Because I think, too, a child could really, our team could really love a sport, but it could be like the dynamic between like teammates and coaches that can really shift things for kids. And to know that it's okay to like pivot and try something else or switch to a different team things like that.

Casey Conte  (30:09)

Mm hmm. Yeah, sometimes there's pressure to from like teammates in those ways. Like again, comparison can really come up like, so and so is only doing this sport, but like I'm doing these two things maybe like, should I only be doing one or like, well, why are you doing two things? You know, so sometimes it can be a little bit funky to and feeling like maybe I shouldn't be doing that. I shouldn't be exploring at a young age. But it's, you know, it really is out there for, you know, sometimes if we didn't try it, we don't even know if we're going to like it, you know, so it's It's really important. It's again necessary for the kids.

Lisa Weiss(30:37)

Yeah, yeah. And I think, too, going off of this is like, what advice do you have for athletes or performers who are dealing with that performance anxiety or like the perfectionism, I feel like, too, that comes with that comparison piece that you were talking about?

Casey Conte  (30:52)

Yeah, absolutely. would say in my own work, think perfectionism is like the most common thing that comes up for competitive athletes. This drive to be better, this idea that making mistakes is a setback is wrong, or we shouldn't do that, or I'm not good enough in those ways. So perfectionists can really take a toll and I should have brought it up before, can really contribute to our burnout because we're just totally on this loop of I have to be better, better, better, we're never stopping to endure to be proud of ourselves for all the work that we're doing. And we're also missing all the great goals that we're meeting along the way if we're just onto the next thing already. So the perfectionist and burnout cycle really does go hand in hand. It can be really tough. In the quick, I'm trying to think of like ways to talk about it. when I think of perfectionism, a lot of conversations I end up having with clients is about like, does that make us love our sport? If we are perfect at this, right? Which we don't even know what that is exactly. Is that going to mean like, okay, now I love my sport? Usually not, you know, like that's not the goal, you know, like, and then we go back to all the reasons why we started our sport. We go back to like our younger self, like, you know, taking our first dance class kind of thing. So the perfectionist cycle really covers up, I say it's a piece, right? Like it really just takes away like all the good things that we're doing because it's telling us that we should be on to the next thing or we don't even have time to celebrate what we just did. We should be working on this to do more and more and It's like a ladder that just like never ends. You you just keep moving and moving and moving. It's really tough.

Lisa Weiss(32:20)

Yeah, and that's exhausting to keep moving up with no goal. Yeah, and to be like, wow, look at all these amazing things that I've been able to do over the past couple months or years. That reflection isn't there in that kind of positive way. It can be really tough, and people are hard on themselves.

Casey Conte  (32:24)

No end in sight.

Lisa Weiss(32:41)

Unfortunately, well, I think there are so many wonderful things, you know, about like social media with community and things like that. But it's also it gives people the opportunity to compare and feel like they need to be at a certain point because so and so is at a certain point or this influencer is doing this sort of thing.

Casey Conte  (32:56)

Yeah, the social media comparison is so tough. know, like it's just, we are constantly consuming information, constantly comparing constantly. Should I be doing that? You know, it's really tough on the kids and it's so ingrained in their day to day right now. So it's hard to find, I think, what is that healthy balance? Cause again, everybody's doing it too. So what is like the in-between or what is, you know, what's healthy for us? but yeah, perfectionism, perfectionism really you know, it can contribute to the burnout. But I think of like when clients come in with like, my mood feels different or I'm feeling depressed or I'm feeling anxious and events not even realizing that this drive is pushing us to feel differently about our sport, you know, and it's like, you know, sometimes we could be the best on the team or the number one in the class, whatever it may be and still feel really unsatisfied, you know, so being perfect doesn't mean that it's going to give you that fulfillment, if that makes sense. And I think about to all the intrusive thoughts, anxious thoughts, all the loops that we're kind of having going on in our mind, like as we're playing our sport, like I should be doing better. That wasn't good enough. Like all those really negative thoughts that get us down. And I remember one of my favorite lessons during my training was  one of the speakers had told us to  open up this word search that she sent us. And she was like,  do this word search as quick as you can. was like, sweet, love a word search. I'm pumped. And then she started this timer, right? And then the whole time she was like, you should be doing better. should be going faster. Why aren't you done yet? my gosh, I can't believe you're taking this long. Like, is that right? Or did you do that right? Was that really how the word is spelled? And she talked the entire time during the word search. And it was such a good lesson of like, this is usually what we're doing to ourselves all the time. I was like, how? I like it on my mind all day. I was like, no way. Like it was so spot on. and just like, I was just thinking of so many of like my athlete clients of just like, are constantly judging ourselves for telling ourselves we're not doing a good enough job. And imagine how hard it is to complete a word search when all that's going on. Imagine how it is to like do these competitive sports at this level that they're doing it at when all this is going on in our mind, you know, like, it was just such a aha kind of moment, like, and I've told so many people about it, like since because it's so true.

Lisa Weiss(34:59)

Yeah, I think that's so great and like experiential of this is putting you in the shoes of the athlete.  And like, you know, we don't think of it that way typically, but it was like a good, good example of why, you know, we put ourselves through what athletes put put themselves through. And I think of like in the equestrian world to like you're you're on your horse and you have all of like the negative self talk and you're like trying to like control yourself like guide your horse, all these sorts of things. it's so much of that gets clouded and you're not in the zone.

Casey Conte  (35:30)

my gosh, absolutely. And a lot of the time, like, I'm just thinking of like, some of like my high school kids who like made the team or like made varsity and all these things like you have, you made the team like, for a reason, you know, like, it's not a question about if you can or can't do the level that they're asking to perform at. Like sometimes if we're not their mindset or like working on the mental emotional side of it, we can't perform, you know, because it's really setting us back. I mean, Simone Biles, right? Like, dropping out of the Olympics to work on herself. had a case of the twisties, right? Like we know that Simone Biles can do the work. Like we all know, you know, like that wasn't a question, but if you're not taking care of yourself in that way, like it's going to prevent us from doing the physical side of things. So it really just go in hand, in hand, like you can't do one without the other.

Lisa Weiss(36:12)

Absolutely. talk to my clients all the time about like pulling that fire alarm and like once that fire alarms pulled like thinking brain goes offline We're not able to make those kinds of choices and all the tools in our toolbox like we yeah

Casey Conte  (36:24)

Yeah

Lisa Weiss(36:26)

Yeah. So I think that's really great. Yeah, for athletes to hear, for parents to hear, for coaches to hear. The mental health aspect is such a huge component. Yes, it's not just the physical stuff. But can you share any particular coping strategies or resources, like any books or apps that you recommend to your clients during this time of the year?

Casey Conte  (36:48)

Yeah, absolutely. I've been doing a lot of goal handouts right now. I love a goal sheet. Like I like to lay out goals or to write them somewhere that you can see them or like circle back to them at the end of the year, end of the season kind of thing. So switch it up as needed, but I always like something that's like a what's your one week goal? You know, what's it like just to get through the first week of school, first week getting back into practices, one month goals? maybe till the end of this year or six months or like a year or like the end of the school year kind of thing. just kind of really, helping clients psychoeducation wise too, with like the difference between the short term and the longterm goals and thinking of like a handful of clients that are preparing for college. And it's like, I have two years before that, but like, you know, they're starting to see colleges now, like, you know, there's steps along the way that's going to help you get, to that longterm goal. So really separating, what are your short term goals? What can you do from day to day? And like, what are those overall, like longterm goals? But I always really encourage anybody to write it down and have it somewhere that you can see it. Put it on the fridge, put it somewhere in your room that you could see it and go back to it too. Because that can be like the reminder or on those tough days when maybe like the burnout starting to kick in a little bit. Just the reminder to this is why I'm doing what I'm doing. This is what I want to get to. So seeing it think is really helpful.

Lisa Weiss(37:57)

Yeah, I'm having like that tangible thing that could be like on the fridge or like in a notebook where you're like reflecting on these kinds of things.

Casey Conte  (38:02)

Yeah, absolutely. I say the same thing. love like a coping skill like card or like index card, you know, just to have it somewhere, keep it in your car, keep it on the fridge, like somewhere that you can see it. Because sometimes when we're in distress, like, can remember my skills, you know, like I need a reminder, you know, like, so something to go back to, like, it's, it's really helpful. Like app wise, I really like, I don't have my phone with me, but it's called ⁓ how we feel that the icon is like a little heart. It's free. But I really like it because it sends you notifications. Hey, check in. It'll just send you a little thing, how are you feeling right now? And it brings up a screen with a bunch of different emotions. You can click on one or film one. if you want to, I really like to kind of really browse around and see how I'm feeling. But then it also lets you write a little journal entry. So you can use it in a self-reflection kind of way too. I personally use it for when I go to the gym. It's really nice to check in on this is how I ran today. You know, I'm really excited for tomorrow. This is how I felt after this is like what I want to get to tomorrow. So I kind of use it or like have talked to athletes in that way of like set it up the goal kind of way if you want to, or like really honing in on and I'll pair it with this too, which is really helpful. You know, all of our athletes are going to have goals that they want to get to, right? It's okay to have goals to be onto the next thing. if you're working on something or say, if you just had a practice, you just had a game or performance, whatever it may be. if you're reflecting on how it went, always start with what went well. Okay, we do really good. What did we really like about what we did? What felt really good? Even for parents to you know, when you get in the car and you kind of debrief afterwards, talk about what went really well first. Because if not, we didn't forget about it. And we don't talk about it. And we just instantly go into what can you better what can I do next time? You know, this isn't this wasn't your best on this. And it's like, you can instantly kind of feel down about like, what just happened. That's gonna really the feedback loop isn't going to help with like, motivation for the next game or the next performance, you know, so to prioritize talking about what went well first, stay away from good and bad too. You want to kind of like, a little bit more gentle in the way of just like, this felt really good, or this is what I really liked, or this is what I want to keep doing. I use it the same way on the app too. This is what really well went really well. This is what felt really good today. This is what I want to try for tomorrow. So putting it first is like so helpful, but also letting yourself know, the body know we're prioritizing why we're doing what we're doing again.

Lisa Weiss(40:10)

No, I love that. it really sets up the rest of that conversation of, OK, what went well? What can be improved on? Or things that I want to Continue to work on rather than, they sucked. Everything worked.

Casey Conte  (40:22)

And sometimes, you know, like it happens, like sometimes it just wasn't our best, didn't feel good, like it happens. But if we get in that flow too and can kind of just set ourselves up in that structure of talking about what went good, like it's just different than what we typically would do naturally. Like it's just natural for us to, not good enough, can I do better? know, especially for athletes, we're hard on ourselves.

Lisa Weiss(40:40)

Absolutely. So I think that is so wonderful. And thank you so much for sharing that app. And I'm sure we can link that somewhere for listeners. Yeah. So to wrap things up, if a listener could take just one message away from the conversation today, what would you want that to be?

Casey Conte  (40:56)

I just remember why we do our sport, you know, like why you started it, why you go every day, why you get up really early or why you stay up really late for a practice. Like we do it because we love it, because we enjoy it, because it's part of who we are. You know, I may not dance as much as, I don't dance as much at all from what I used to. It's really hard to find an adult ballet class, honestly, but you know, it's a part of who I am and I take a lot of pride in that, you know, it's made me who I am today. So remember why you're doing your sport, why you love it, why it's fun, why it feels fulfilling for you, why, if you do want to do it long term or if you do want to do it college professionally, why you want to keep doing that because of that feeling, because of what it brings you, because of what it's like, you know, when you achieve a goal on it. So those are the, that's why we do what we do, because a lot of the other noise, the comparison, the pressure, the competitive stuff, can really get in the way of like why we're doing what we're doing sometimes. So remember why you love your sport. Absolutely.

Lisa Weiss(41:49)

Yeah, no, I think that's so wonderful. And as you said before, like the comparison or the perfection, like that is the thief of joy. So like bringing yourself back to your, your why. And sometimes, you know, that's like tapping into that, like inner child and like, oh, we're doing this for little me. And like, we've always loved this. So I think that is so wonderful. And this has been so great chatting about this niche. think it's, it's so important. And thank you so much for your time.

Casey Conte  (42:14)

my God, thank you for asking. This has been so cool. I could talk about like, you know, sports and dance all like all day long. So this has been so cool to just lay it out in this way. And I hope we get to do it again.

Lisa Weiss(42:24)

Yeah, absolutely.